Yet more notes on overclocking

by no2chem 8. September 2009 20:59

So, I’ve got a lot of feedback on nueOverClockTest, which is actually more mixed than I expected. Here’s a brief summary of the results:

1) Both GSM and CDMA users are capable, to some degree, of running their device at 768MHz.
2) Some users cannot run at the higher speed at all, while others can run on AC and Battery just fine.
3) Stability varies heavily from user to user. Some people report that their device crashes after 1 minute, others claim they can run at 768MHz all day (and run intensive apps such as CorePlayer).

So what does this all mean? Let’s break down exactly what we’re doing here. The MSM7xxx series, as much as we love or hate it is a pretty complicated in terms of clocks, as it needs to maintain accurate, low jitter clocks for cell radio, USB, TV out, I2C, the two processors, memory, etc – all on one chip. The MSM comes with several clock sources:

Sleep Crystal: 32.576 kHz, used for sleep circuit when TCXO is disabled

TCXO (Temperature Controlled Crystal Oscillator): A very accurate 19.2MHz signal that is required for radio communications (Apparently,  dividing this by about 16 gives you ~ the 1.25 MHz baseband channel frequency for CDMA).

USB Crystal: a 48MHz crystal used to meet USB standards for jitter.

Now, thats not actually very many frequencies to work with, so how do we generate the 528MHz required for the A11 at regular (stock) operating speed? The MSM7500 comes with four PLLs to generate these:

PLL0: a FPLL (Frequency and Phase Locked Loop), this generates the frequency used for the Modem (ARM9), which if I’m correct, is 294 MHz.

PLL1: a DPLL (Digital Phase Locked Loop), this is the “global PLL”. A lot of frequencies are generated from this PLL by division, and it runs at 768MHz.

PLL2: a DPLL, “Backup PLL 0”, which is used for the MSM7xxA processors when they are at 528MHz. It appears to run at 1.056 GHz.

PLL3: a DPLL, “Backup PLL 1”, which appears to be unused.

All these PLLs source their signals from the 19.2MHz TCXO, probably because its nicely accurate and temperature compensated.

So what does nueOverClockTest do? It simply sets the primary clock for the applications arm (ARM11) to PLL1 / 1, instead of the default PLL2 / 2. (And no, there are no non-integer dividers, probably because it would result in really bad jitter) Now why would this work on some devices but not others? Let’s explore several theories:

Die Quality: It might just be that the dies of some processors are higher quality than other processors, making them capable of running at higher frequencies than others, much as in your traditional CPU. After all, we are running the ARM11 at 45% higher than it’s rated speed, so quality control only rejected dies that could not run at 528 MHz.

AHB/AHI/AXI bus stability: Some people may have noted that running applications such as Manila may cause crashes. This is because the graphics core runs at a different frequency than the ARM11 core, so a sudden drastic change in frequency might not make the intercommunications bus very happy and cause the device to crash.

Radio Version: As much as it seems to not be related, contrary to common belief, the Radio actually controls a lot of the setup and initial configuration of the device, including controlling voltage levels and PLL settings. This might explain why some radios seem to work better than others (different AMSS versions).

Insufficient Voltage: Perhaps the voltage regulators are a little inaccurate, and the devices that are working are pushing a higher voltage than the devices that aren’t working.

So what have I done to approach the problem?

1) I’ve tried to see if I can adjust the output value of PLL2. It appears that a clock control register under the control of the ARM9, DCPLL1_L_VAL_REG, controls what the output frequency of PLL2 is. It appears to be a multiple the TCXO 19.2MHz clock – the default value is 0x7, and when I set it to 0x1, the device operates as if it is running at 19.2MHz. 0x2 – 0x6 causes crashes. Another option here is to try using PLL3, which is unused, to generate a custom frequency.

2) I’ve tried to adjust voltage regulators. The device has eight (0-7) power levels, which are set by the ARM9. There is a configuration register, VDD_APC_PLEVEL*, which controls the actual output of each level, which in turn is set by the PMIC. The ARM11 can request one of the levels, and the ARM9 in turn requests a level from the PMIC. I’ve tried increasing the voltage defined in this register, but it seems to not help at all with stability.

3) There is a clock divider for the AHB that is separate from the ARM11 frequency. I’ve tried increasing the divider from the default of 0x4 to 0x5, with no real increase in stability.

So that’s what I’ve done so far – and hopefully that gives you a better picture of the task at hand =). I’m working hard on trying to lower the frequency a bit so its stable for more people, and to make it work for everyone, be patient!

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Comments


United States cornelious2 
August 5. 2009 21:53 | Reply
cornelious2
keep up the good fight brother!

June 7. 2010 00:31 | Reply
intuk
I just cant stop reading this. Its so cool, so full of information that I just didn't know. I'm glad to see that people are actually writing about this issue in such a smart way, showing us all different sides to it. You're a great blogger. Please keep it up. I cant wait to read whats next.



Norway Morten 
August 5. 2009 22:11 | Reply
Morten
Thank you for not giving up on this, these chips need all the performance they can get. Smile


Poland Vaxon 
August 5. 2009 22:15 | Reply
Vaxon
Whole world is watching progress with your 'fight' mate (-: Good luck!


Spain Adrian 
August 5. 2009 22:40 | Reply
Adrian
Hi, im really interested in how your app work. In XDA we are talking about overclocking of MSM7201a , but  i have no idea about how your program can be ported to android. Do you see it possible?

Thank you!


Norway Morten 
August 6. 2009 00:07 | Reply
Morten
Hmm, saw this interesting post by xmfreak on xda ( forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php ) I see that he got it working on his x1 by disabling the phone, then overclocking and after that he could enable the phone again. Seems to be related to some unstable bus like you said that don't like sudden large frequency changes when they are active, but copes just fine when they are restarted. reminds me of my htc S710, it could go to 270 (something) mhz, but not without stopping by 262 mhz first.
By the way, my Blackstone gsm with both duttys r12 and wm6.5leo r2 instantly freezes or reboots radio: 14.25.24


August 6. 2009 01:08 | Reply
shaggylive
for what is worth I was testing on stock shipped sprint (several month old rom install and very dirty from trying every tweak on it Smile )

all seemed well, even on battery, then the hangs and reboots started.  from what I can tell, the battery now only reads in 10% increments again.  also I can get it to freaze or reboot consistantly when attempting to use google maps. (does the gps use a clock?..)

even after uninstalling, it still had these symptoms for a few boots, but seems back to normal for now.


August 6. 2009 01:09 | Reply
shaggylive
sorry, that's  sprint Touch Pro with a proc dated june08


United Kingdom iky10 
August 6. 2009 05:24 | Reply
iky10
could it also be depending on what radio version they are using like 1.12, 1.13, 1.14 etc, am sure each version operates slightly different to each other, some report better signal, better sound quality better battery performance its just an idea we could ask ppl to those who have the OC tool working to post there radio versions hopefully we can narrow it down.


United States Nature 
August 6. 2009 06:12 | Reply
Nature
After testing out a bit, i cant get the overclocker to run if i cut the radio off. Only when its plugged into an outlet with the radio on, and even then, i get only about a minute of use before it locks up.

Within that minute window, i if i try to cut the radio off, it becomes unresponsive immediately.


Poland Krogoth 
August 6. 2009 07:34 | Reply
Krogoth
My phone is overclocked since yesterday 3 PM and its working in all instances Tong I've thrown a donation becouse 1.3 tool is fully operable for me Smile


Italy giugiu 
August 6. 2009 07:52 | Reply
giugiu
Hello,
tested on X1, cooked rom with WM 6.1 and manila 2.1. Doesn't work at all, even with the "Turn off phone connection" trick I've read. Freezes suddenly when i hit the "yes" button of last window.


United Kingdom Tom 
August 6. 2009 08:13 | Reply
Tom
Brilliant concept, mate! It does, however, freeze instantly on my Blackstone (Dutty's WM 6.1 V4.3). I suppose you did warn about MSM 720 chipsets. Do you think you can get it to work for those of us with MSM 720's? Or has anyone on a different ROM, with a Blackstone, got it to work?


United States FrizzleFry 
August 6. 2009 08:29 | Reply
FrizzleFry
I loved it, for about three hours. then i plugged it in to my ac adapter and it hung. Would not soft reset, it would hang at the splash screen.
Alltel Touch Pro, Mighty Rom 4 6/20/09, telus 10405v. A hard reset solved it.
The performance increase was impressive while it lasted, keep trying


United States cornelious2 
August 6. 2009 08:42 | Reply
cornelious2
@frizzlefry I get that issue with mightyrom using the telus radio every time I try his roms after a couple hours.

ive been overclocking on a 6.1 build for over 6 hours no issues its like a new phone!

United States FrizzleFry 
August 6. 2009 09:03 | Reply
FrizzleFry
cornelious2, you get that issue when overclocking or in general? because before I overclocked it was solid for months. BTW what are you running now? I could be convinced to switch radios.

United States cornelious2 
August 6. 2009 14:18 | Reply
cornelious2
I was saying in general.  It would run fine for a while then all of a sudden BAM it froze and wouldn't reboot taking a hard reset.  I have sense given up on 6.5 till we get an official release.  I need stable over pretty.




United States Urufu_Shinjiro 
August 6. 2009 09:00 | Reply
Urufu_Shinjiro
Wow, very impressive. It's like building an overclocking motherboard BIOS without having any specs for the chipset, the cpu or how they interact. I'm a big pc overclocker so I know there is a lot more to it that turn up the voltage and crank the FSB, lol, all kinds of other things can start running out of spec without the proper locks in place, etc. Good luck man, we're all pulling for ya!


United States Luke 
August 6. 2009 09:43 | Reply
Luke
V1.4 coming soon? I've been waiting impatiently Laughing... I LOVE YOUR WORK!


United States chris 
August 6. 2009 14:13 | Reply
chris
Good lord, n2c.  Is there anything you can't do?

This is just awesome.  Thanks for being a part of the PPC community.


United States Chad 
August 6. 2009 15:29 | Reply
Chad
I am going to purchase and use whatever phone you use for the foreseeable future.  It just wouldn't be the same without your tools!  My talents lie elsewhere, and dont have time for a hobby like this, so your hard work is appreciated!  

I have managed to run my phone overclocked for about 3 hours max today while I was at work.  Using Manila 2.1, Win 6.5. (Us Cellular CDMA phone, 1.07 radio, built April 09.  Finally locked on me after plugging it in, and trying to run HTC Album.  Soft reset, re clocked, tried to update my stocks via Manila, froze again.  It seems I can run it clocked indefinitely as long as I stay out of the really intensive Manila files.


United States Adam 
August 6. 2009 16:28 | Reply
Adam
Instant lockup. Sprint Touch Pro running NRG Genesis ROM 23016. Keep it up. Watching for updates.


Romania Dani 
August 6. 2009 18:11 | Reply
Dani
Tried it on my blackstone with WM 6.5, energy's rom, plugged in and with phone off but it froze when tapped on yes to overclock.


August 6. 2009 18:34 | Reply
Kane3162
bah sucks...
Radio test results, .12/.31/.34
Phone Radio On: Freeze on "Yes" Requires soft-reset
Phone Radio Off: Freeze on "Yes" Requires soft-reset
Power Radio On: Passes "Yes" Displays conformation properly randomly, otherwise same as with power radio off.  
Power Radio Off: Passes "Yes" but Conformation doesn't totally display (it looks like it auto hits "Ok" because the "Ok" flashes in the top right hand corner), any screen/button press or random amount of time passing causes phone to immediately soft reset, additionally a few times it just froze all together and a soft-reset was required.

All around, 10 runs for each test on each radio VERY random, no actual linear results, done on SprintTP HARDRESET DCD 2.06 with latest carrier cab... im tired now its 3AM... (as im too tired to do more, phones date is between Feb and April... more when i wake)


August 6. 2009 18:36 | Reply
Kane3162
on a further thought... those of you who posted saying it works for you...

DEVICE INFO PLEASE
CDMA/GSM?
Radio?
SPL?
ROM?
MFGDate?
MORE INFO!!!


Netherlands Marco 
August 6. 2009 21:27 | Reply
Marco
Works until trying to change tab in Manila

Raph T7272 (GSM)
EnergyROM Genesis WWE (05-sept-2009)
Radio: 1.11.25.01
Protocol v: 52.58.25.30H

Tested with AC plugged in, mSD card taken out.


Spain Adrian 
August 7. 2009 12:35 | Reply
Adrian
There is no way to overclock in example to 625? I should be more stable..


Spain xmfreak 
August 7. 2009 19:00 | Reply
xmfreak
Be patient. He realeased it as a test and he is trying to improve it to gain stability so wait a little more I'm sure he'll make it work with most phones at last.


United States Jason8 
August 7. 2009 19:24 | Reply
Jason8
Successfully overclocked my Fuze!  I couldn't get it to overclock at all.  Then I pulled my SD card and it worked. Not for a long time, but it did work.

Also, no2chem, the phone remains functional if it freezes.  The screen just doesn't update.  My phone froze and I'm still listening to the radio! Laughing

Try doing other things before you overclock it.  See if it keeps it up afterwards!  I'm off to do other stuff to see if it actually freezes.


United States cerchiarax 
August 7. 2009 21:39 | Reply
cerchiarax
Hey for the guys that have it working whats your PRI?


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Portugal clpdj 
December 27. 2009 18:03 | Reply
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May 7. 2010 13:23 | Reply
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@op your overclocking a laptop? Toshiba is laptop right? No wonder it's freezing, laptops shouldnt be overclocked really, theres just not enough space to ventilate the heat out of the system.


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It's like building an overclocking motherboard BIOS without having any specs for the chipset, the cpu or how they interact. I'm a big pc overclocker so I know there is a lot more to it that turn up the voltage and crank the FSB, lol, all kinds of other things can start running out of spec without the proper locks in place, etc. Good luck man, we're all pulling for ya!




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It's like building an overclocking motherboard BIOS without having any specs for the chipset, the cpu or how they interact. I'm a big pc overclocker so I know there is a lot more to it that turn up the voltage and crank the FSB, lol, all kinds of other things can start running out of spec without the proper locks in place, etc. Good luck man, we're all pulling for ya!


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